by Shorty, Milk Was a Bad Choice
With just one touchdown pass on Sunday afternoon against the Minnesota Vikings, Brett Favre will pass Dan Marino as the all-time leader in TD passes. That's not the only record that Favre might break on Sunday. With three more interceptions, everyone's favorite gunslinger will also become the all-time leader in that dubious category. Listen, I am admittedly a Dan Marino homer, since I grew up a huge Miami Dolphins fan, but when I heard Ron Jaworski recently state that Marino was no longer on his top ten QB's list, that's when I knew this all needed to stop.
The biggest perception problem is that everyone in the mainstream media loves judging QB's strictly on Super Bowls and that's just plain wrong. Football is the epitome of a total team sport where players rely on their various teammates on every single play. John Elway spent his entire career in the same position as Marino, and then suddenly with his career winding down, he was blessed with Terrell Davis. If Davis hadn't come along, would Elway have been any less of a QB? I don't think so, but that's what ESPN what have you believe.
Back to Marino vs Favre, let's take a look at the comparison. Favre's greatest seasons came in the mid 1990's and they were 'hall of fame' good, no question. Marino's numbers in the mid 1980's were staggering. The most TD's Favre ever threw for was 39, while Marino threw for more than 40 twice. Marino only once, in his final season, threw for more interceptions than TD's. Brett Favre has already done that three times in his illustrious career.
Finally, while the John Madden's and Chris Berman's of the world love to praise Favre for his gunslinger mentality and 'balls of a cat-burglar" let's not forget how many occasions Favre has helped bury his own team in a big spot. In the 2001 playoffs against the Rams, Brett threw a remarkable six interceptions and then in 2004 he laid another egg throwing four more picks for good measure in a blowout loss to the Vikings. Brett Favre is a tremendous, Hall of Fame Quarterback. My problem is that I believe he is drastically overrated in terms of historic signal callers and I feel he gets far too much credit for being the Cal Ripken of his sport. Was he a better Quarterback than Dan Marino? No way, no how. Danny boy was the best pure passer to ever step on a football field. His passing records stood for over twenty years in part because he was the prototype QB of the future. I'm not taking anything away from Favre, but can we please give Dan Marino his due?
Friday, September 28, 2007
MARINO VS FAVRE
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23 comment(s):
Dilfer has a Super Bowl ring therefore, Dilfer is better than Marino. It's a fact; deal with it.
I was at Marino's final game when he got pulled in the first half after spotting the Jags a 21 to 0 lead in the first quarter of a playoff game. Unlike Favre and Elway, Marino stuck around far too long. That hurt his team and his stature as an elite QB.
Subtract Marino's last five years from the record books and you'll have his real numbers.
Yes, Marino was good. He got the credit he deserved but he doesn't play anymore. Records were made to be broken and now his will be, as will Favre's when Peyton is all done.
You can't criticize the man when it truly is the media that builds him up to be this "gunslinger."
As for the interceptions, imagine how many TD's he would have today had he not thrown so many picks - and yes, many of them were bad decision-making, but I'd never fault the guy for trying to make something happen.
marino = isotoner gloves and ace ventura
favre = painkillers, booze and hookers
point favre.
in all honesty, marino was one of the greatest pure passers in history but favre has that mystique that links the great modern qb's like elway, montana and brady. the qb is responsible for winning above all else, not just passing, marino didn't win, yea he could toss but the lack of a super bowl is a legit beef against him. the qb is a dual position and leading is just as important as any of the tangible elements of the game.
Questions like this can be simply answered in one way: switch the teams.
If Tom Brady and Peyton Manning had been on the other team, how would we think of them?
If Dan Marino and Brett Favre had had each other's defense, how would we think of them?
Suffice it to say that, if Marino had had Reggie White on his team, Marino would probably have 2-3 rings, and no one would be spreading this utter nonsense about Favre being a better QB than Marino. Marino may have had better WRs, but I'm sure he'd rather have had the Packer defense.
Of course, listening to ESPN's talking heads is really the first mistake here. In ten years we'll be hearing how Vince Young is better than Favre ever was.
There's absolutely no way that Brett Favre is better than Dan Marino. And if you're going to bring up Ace Ventura, you have to bring up There's Something About Mary.
If you can't criticize Favre for trying to "make something happen" then you can't criticize Marino for hanging around "too long," even though he never had a running game or a stable coaching staff. Anyone who thinks it's alright for Favre to throw 3 picks a game probably thinks Rex Grossman is the next best QB in the league, behind Favre.
"The most TD's Favre ever threw for was 39, while Marino threw for more than 40 twice."
"Elway spent his entire career in the same position as Marino, and then suddenly with his career winding down, he was blessed with Terrell Davis. If Davis hadn't come along, would Elway have been any less of a QB?"
You can't have it both ways. Favre's superior run support made his team better, but it's likely it also lowered his number of passing touchdowns in some of those seasons.
Also, interceptions hurt your team, but so does missing games. I think you're comparing apples to oranges--really awesome green apples to mediocre Florida oranges.
Man, I don't get the appeal of Marino. At all.
Marino always struck me as a stat collecting kind of guy. A compiler. He played for a long time, as has Favrvevere, and that is a huge part of his "status."
Football is not all about winning Super Bowls but it is also NOT all about statistics either. I put Marino in the same category of "me first, stat machines" as Pete Rose and World B Free. Congrats, your favorite QB is the Pete Rose of the NFL.
Danny from Milwaukee - awesome point. That was another Marino record that Brett Favre broke, wasn't it? Consecutive games started at QB? Marino missed some games due to the '87 strike so there's a bit of an asterisk with his streak. But missed games was never a problem with Dan Marino anymore than it is with Favre. I'm guessing you don't get the appeal because you didn't actually watch him. He is a jackass but he was an incredible QB. Please note that before he won 2 Super Bowls in his last two years that Marino and Montana were generally considered the QBs of their generation.
fuck you..
how many championships does Marino have?
how many times was he the league MVP?
ball suck me..
there is no question that the ragin' cajun is, was and always will be the better QB...
Listen. I love Marino. Better quarterback wins the superbowl no matter what.
It's true, now that Peyton won, there's no excuse.
Listen, it's not about statistics, it's about the win. Getting the most touchdowns, getting the most wins is great and all, and enough to get you in the hall of fame, but if you're saying that a person who won is better than a person who painted a pretty picture, but never won the big game, you're missing the point of football. The point of football is winning the professional championships. No matter what the stakes, no matter what the options, a winning quarterback is better. If you don't agree with that, you're an apologist. Sorry.
Don't check out my blog. I haven't updated it since I started it.
Just talk shit about me here. I'll read it.
Let me specify, i'm drunk. A person with stats like Favre, as much as I dislike him, still won a superbowl. Football's not about individual performance, it's about the team. We've got to accept that, as much as we want one person to single handedly take over a game.
As far as i've seen, the only person (And this is still a stretch) that i've seen win a season, is vince young, and that was the national championship.
Either way, my opinions are just that, opinions. Let's see the venom.
Two rings suddenly made everybody forget all about Elway loosing 3 SB's? The Trent Dilfer comment was great too.
I tried to google it but my short attention span got me, who is the leader in Int's? Is it Roger Craig? So then do you make the same comparison that Bret is as bad as RC?
Kind of ruins the whole comparison based on accomplishments good or bad.
Dan Marino was great as a pure passer, and who knows what he could do with today's wide receivers and a half-way decent running game.
That said, there's always someone breaking a "major" record in professional football. Look how many times the single season touchdown record has changed since the turn of the century. It's not like baseball where players, essentially, perform in a vacuum with few outside factors.
Just for kicks, everyone craps on Drew Bledsoe, but here are his career rankings in passing categories.
Pass attempts: 5th all time
Completions: 5th all time
Passing yards: 7th all time
Passing TDs: 13th all time
Drew Bledsoe? Future Hall Of Famer?
That's my story & I'm sticking to it...but I'm glad to see all of the feedback...thanx...
All of these opinions are obviously biased. You can say what you want about Marino, but please look at the facts first. Dan Marino came from an offense (and time period) where all they did was throw the ball. Not to say there weren't good rushers, but Miami in particular threw the ball 80% of the time. And why wouldn't they? They had Dan Marino. Point being, defense and clock management win games which includes running the ball. Ironically the Packers this year look like the old Dolphins. Rushing for 50 yds a game and throwing for 350 yds. This won't last long and the Pack had better get the running going.
Everyone here is compairing apples to oranges. Marino did not ever win the big one, probably because the team did not commit to the run or giving him a great defense. Had they done that, he might have won one. Lokk at the Packers win loss record since Holmgren, White, and Favre came. They have only had 1 losing season out of the last 13. The same could not be said of the Dolphins, not even close. Brett won 3 MVPS in a row (only one in the NFL) and went to back to back Superbowls winning the first. And, almost winning the second. He has broke most of Marino's records with the exception of Manning throwing the most in one season. Favre has played with broken bones, pulled muscles, his Dad dying, his wife getting breast cancer, his brother in law dying on his land. His brother dying, etc....
And through all that has not missed ONE GAME.
There is no comparison as to who the tougher guys is and ultimately who the better QB is.
Not to mention that last 2-3 years he has played with almost an entire rookie offense. And, he plays better in sub freezing temps.
Dan Marino deserves his props, but step aside Dan, tehy will be building an entirely separate wing in Canton for Brett Favre.
I was at the game when Brett broke the record and they played Dan Marino's speach on the big screen. I will say it was very nice and Dan could not have congratulated Brett any better.
"They have only had 1 losing season out of the last 13. The same could not be said of the Dolphins, not even close."
You are entitled to your opinion about who is the better QB, but at least make sure your stats are accurate...
In Marino's career the Dolphins went to the playoffs in 9 of the 14 full seasons he played (1987 - strike & his achilles injury not included) and only suffered one losing season in 1988. How is that "not even close?"
Your spelling could also use some work...
First of all... Favre is the man, and heres why. Lets get one thing straight - Marino has more passing attempts then favre, I'm not sure of the exact number but if u don't believe me look it up for yourself.
Marino has attepts somewhere in the low 8000's and Favre's is in the high 7000's. Also Favre has more completionsm, more touchdowns, soon to be more yards (needing just 3800yds this season) despite having less attempts. And finally, as far as being better for your franchise, Favre plain and simply never misses starts and has won a superbowl, the same cannot be said for the for the so called greatest QB of all time, Dan Marino.
Favre almost single handedly lost the Packers game Sunday night against the Bears with ill-advised throws that turned into costly turnovers. The fact is, that while Marino and others clearly saw their skill level decline with age, Favre hasn't had that problem. Instead he is plagued by the same idiotic decision making that has troubled him for years. How can he be a better QB than Marino when he is a mental midget?
i think 4th quater come from behind wins are important like in the last 2 min marino owns that i think he was pretty dang good really good i meen dan marino come on
besides marinos 2nd to last season he threw what 3500 yards 25 tds 15 picks with oj mcduffie as best reciever. decreped 37 year old marino i am a dolphin fan though. he was 1 game short a super bowl.is he better than farve farve by a hair.
DAN MARINO IS THE BEST PURE PASSER IN HISTORY. It's unfortunate that QB's are judged on the number of rings in a true TEAM sport. However if not for the all world performance of Desmond Howard & HOFer Reggie White, Brett would still be ringless too. Manning now has a ring because his DEFENSE won the first two playoffs games last year for him. Favre has been fortunate that he has had (9) 1,000 yard backs behind him, Marino just 1 (in a non-full season year by DM or it would have been none) & a better than average Defense in most years. Today's QB's are blessed with the bye weeks, 5 yard Chuck rule, & many other advantages to increase scoring. Favre is known as much for his bone head picks as his TD passes........That's all you need to know when you try to compare he two. How in a West Coast offense does he throw that many picks any??? Short screens & slants in a dink & dunk offense.
Dan did not have the option to play-action without any running game either or play indoors or call your own plays like Manning. IN HISTORY Behind every Great QB is a running back unless your name is Dan (Marino or Fouts). Brett should take his Defense, Edgar Bennett, Dorsey Levens, & Ahman Green to dinner after every game for heling him along the way.
The reason the Packers have ONLY 1 losing season & not 2 during Favre's tenure is because the BEARS rested their players for last season's finale. So put an asterick by that one.
Farve is better than Marino, but not the best ever.
Favre WON THE BIG GAME. PERIOD.
Marino was the "Pistol" Pete of football; get records, not wins..
But, some of these comments are just batty... Roger Craig the old INT record holder?!?!?!? It's Blanda!
Pete Rose being about the stats?!?!?!? Pete Rose was never about the stats, he was a tough player who put it all on the line.
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